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Roundtable Meeting 2021 08


Volunteering Facilitators: Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist, ...

What

We hold a regular meeting somewhere around the third Thursday of each month.
More information about Tiki Roundtable Meetings here.

When


Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 14:00 UTC time (click to check time zone in your location)

Time in your timezone (when this page was last reloaded): Saturday 23 October 2021 20:05:36 CEST

Votes

Votes

[-]

The time will be set by the participants vote:

Tiki Roundtable Meeting Time Votes

Voting ended:
14 Aug 2021 14:00 GMT-0000
15 Aug 2021 14:00 GMT-0000
19 Aug 2021 12:00 GMT-0000
19 Aug 2021 14:00 GMT-0000
22 Aug 2021 14:00 GMT-0000
25 Aug 2021 12:00 GMT-0000
25 Aug 2021 14:00 GMT-0000
26 Aug 2021 12:00 GMT-0000
26 Aug 2021 14:00 GMT-0000
1
2  
-1
2  
1
-2
-1
-1
1

Where

What

See Roundtable Meetings for a detailed description.

First hour, quick news

max 15 minutes topics, please propose and add topic with your username included

  1. Tiki 23.0 release progress
    • when shall we allow users to report bugs against it in dev.t.o? (currently impossible and some work was needed in dev.t.o and show2.t.o server afair)
    • Answer: once the 23.0 is released, the dropdown in dev.t.o will be updated, and we can already prepare the work in show2.t.o to have the new branch ready for then. I'll do that show2.t.o part if I'm able to remember all the steps required, which I did once already in the past
  2. New work on the Advance Shopping Cart feature Shopping Cart Tiki24
  3. ...

put your topic (max. 5-10 minutes) into the list above

Second hour, longer topics

Indicate the time you expect approximately for your topic, please propose and add topic with your username included

  1. Discuss the possibility of a "half way" 23.5 release to include important things that didn't make it into 23.x yet but would be good for Tiki 24 LTS (like Bootstrap 5? More PHP8 compatibility, Shopping revamp etc?)
    1. Considering that the Tiki 24 release is in February 2022, we'd probably want to get started real soon on that 23.5, like create a work in progress Bootstrap 5 branch right away. I'm ready for that :-).
    2. Update: At the meeting, we talked about different options. Some strong points were brought up about why it would be better to wait until Tiki 25 to switch from Bootstrap 4 to 5, and at the end of the discussion the participants voiced agreement that it would be better to wait. See a fairly accurate transcription of the discussion at the bottom of this page. See the recording (0:14:50 - 0:36:00) for details.
  2. May we have a look at some topic I had initially delayed to the Roundtable Meeting in September? (we were expected to be 3 only in august and we are 6 now already...)
  3. https://dev.tiki.org/WYSIWYG-and-Markdown
    1. Update: At the meeting, this was also discussed to be done maybe in conjunction with the Bootstrap upgrade, along with a form builder and page builder.

Recording

Follow-Up

  • Fairly accurate transcription of the Bootstrap 5 upgrade discussion:
(For reference: Tiki 24 Long-Term Support Version - release in Feb 2022. Tiki 25 Standard Support Version - release in Oct 2022, work starts in Feb 2022)


Marc: What are the objectives?

Jonny: To stay current with Bootstrap versions, not fall too far behind. . . . Maybe Bootstrap 5 could go in 23.2 and just warn people that custom themes will be broken.

M: What's the problem of waiting for Tiki 25 for Bootstrap 5?

J: It'll be over a year away. . . . There is also Font Awesome. It was an idea that I thought was worth discussing, and we'd never done one before, a something-point-five version. And we make the rules up so we could do it if suited.

M: There's two ways to look at this. We could say it's a 23.5, but the other idea is to say it's a 24.0. That's a pre-release, a developer release.

J: As long as that doesn't mean more branches to maintain. We could release stuff from trunk at any point.

M: Tiki 24 is going to be released in six months. Nothing stops us from creating a snapshot from trunk at any time, and just saying here's what it's called. About Bootstrap 5, I think it's better to wait for Tiki 25 because from now to Tiki 24 is a shorter period than usual, it's only six months. Ideally this is a stabilization release, so there are fewer things that are disruptive. We already have quite a few things on our plate to finish up: PSR12, PHP8, and moving to Bootstrap 5 would be disruptive for anybody who has a custom theme. Ideally, we would have told people at the Tiki 21 part, hey, if you have a custom theme and you don't want to have a big upgrade, stay at Tiki 21, but now let's say somebody is a Tiki 22 or 23, they are goong to be forced to upgrade to Tiki 24 because Tiki 23 support is out, and that forces them on a rework of their theme.

M: In the past, the way our Bootstrap stuff worked is that if someone went from Tiki 15 to 18, or 17 to 18, and it's only between 18 and 19 that it changes.

M: So major changes like Bootstrap 5, hopefully it'll be a lot easier than from Bootstrap 3 to 4, but still from 3 to 4 we got some surprises, like some of the plugins weren't Bootstrap 4 compatible. Then you have to do workarounds and hacks and you have to run around upstream . . . and there's a lot of rabbit holes that can happen. That's why I think it's better to do Bootstrap 5 with Tiki 25. Then we have much more time, we have eight months. Nothing stops us from doing experiments before. We could have a branch just for that. And then, in Tiki 25, if Boostrap 5 is a little wonky at first, well it's a Tiki 25 as opposed to an LTS, and that's what people are told to expect.

J: Yeah, I think I agree.

Gary: Yeah, I was kind of anxious (to do it) just because I like the idea of it but, you're right, in practical terms that schedule makes more sense, to take our time with it.

G: I'd like, in conjunction with that, to kind of look at our CSS overall and see if we can get rid of some of our legacy CSS and clean it up and maybe given that amount of time we can make it much nicer than it is right new.

G: So a kind of consensus is to hold off on this until after and take a little more leisurely pace.

J: Yeah, I think so. Font Awesome 6 has probably just got more restrictions and more stuff that isn't free, and not a huge benefit for us to follow that.

. . .

  • Documentation added about the steps needed when releasing a new version in order to allow users to have show2.t.o instances to report bugs against that new version.

https://dev.tiki.org/How-to-release#Update_show2.t.o_info

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Page last modified on Saturday 04 September 2021 19:28:02 GMT-0000